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 Post subject: No records of Jesus
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:35 am 
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Why there are no records of Jesus Christ;
It is not possible to find in any legitimate religious or historical writings compiled between the beginning of the first century and well into the fourth century any reference to Jesus Christ and the spectacular events that the Church says accompanied his life. This confirmation comes from Frederic Farrar (1831-1903) of Trinity College, Cambridge:
"It is amazing that history has not embalmed for us even one certain or definite saying or circumstance in the life of the Saviour of mankind ... there is no statement in all history that says anyone saw Jesus or talked with him. Nothing in history is more astonishing than the silence of contemporary writers about events relayed in the four Gospels."
(The Life of Christ, Frederic W. Farrar, Cassell, London, 1874)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:52 am 
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Is not the bible a historical record of Jesus?
And there are lot of other records that support events that have happen in the bible. I looked into a while back doing research, yet don't ask me today about it. I don't feel like do the research again just to prove a point. Trust me, there are some.

Seem amazing the Frederic guy, sound like he's talking out his butt.
I think one problem is any record of Jesus instantly becomes religious and for none believes then becomes instantly taboo.

Dead sea scrolls is one that come to mind.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:06 am 
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eben wrote:
Is not the bible a historical record of Jesus?
And there are lot of other records that support events that have happen in the bible. I looked into a while back doing research, yet don't ask me today about it. I don't feel like do the research again just to prove a point. Trust me, there are some.

Seem amazing the Frederic guy, sound like he's talking out his butt.
I think one problem is any record of Jesus instantly becomes religious and for none believes then becomes instantly taboo.

Dead sea scrolls is one that come to mind.


I think he may have meant non-biblical records, as obviously the bible contains records of Christ. Also, the question pertains specifically to the existence of the savior, not to generic "events that have happened in the bible."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:11 am 
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Ebolarama wrote:
eben wrote:
Is not the bible a historical record of Jesus?
And there are lot of other records that support events that have happen in the bible. I looked into a while back doing research, yet don't ask me today about it. I don't feel like do the research again just to prove a point. Trust me, there are some.

Seem amazing the Frederic guy, sound like he's talking out his butt.
I think one problem is any record of Jesus instantly becomes religious and for none believes then becomes instantly taboo.

Dead sea scrolls is one that come to mind.


I think he may have meant non-biblical records, as obviously the bible contains records of Christ. Also, the question pertains specifically to the existence of the savior, not to generic "events that have happened in the bible."


The Dead sea Scrolls are non-biblical.
And a good expamle of my point. As soon as something mention Jesus it becomes religious. There are a few such records, but again don't ask it's been a while sense I looked them up.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:45 am 
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eben wrote:
Ebolarama wrote:
eben wrote:
Is not the bible a historical record of Jesus?
And there are lot of other records that support events that have happen in the bible. I looked into a while back doing research, yet don't ask me today about it. I don't feel like do the research again just to prove a point. Trust me, there are some.

Seem amazing the Frederic guy, sound like he's talking out his butt.
I think one problem is any record of Jesus instantly becomes religious and for none believes then becomes instantly taboo.

Dead sea scrolls is one that come to mind.


I think he may have meant non-biblical records, as obviously the bible contains records of Christ. Also, the question pertains specifically to the existence of the savior, not to generic "events that have happened in the bible."


The Dead sea Scrolls are non-biblical.
And a good expamle of my point. As soon as something mention Jesus it becomes religious. There are a few such records, but again don't ask it's been a while sense I looked them up.


Aren't the Dead Sea Scrolls gospels that were left out of the bible?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:55 am 
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Ebolarama wrote:
eben wrote:
Ebolarama wrote:
eben wrote:
Is not the bible a historical record of Jesus?
And there are lot of other records that support events that have happen in the bible. I looked into a while back doing research, yet don't ask me today about it. I don't feel like do the research again just to prove a point. Trust me, there are some.

Seem amazing the Frederic guy, sound like he's talking out his butt.
I think one problem is any record of Jesus instantly becomes religious and for none believes then becomes instantly taboo.

Dead sea scrolls is one that come to mind.


I think he may have meant non-biblical records, as obviously the bible contains records of Christ. Also, the question pertains specifically to the existence of the savior, not to generic "events that have happened in the bible."


The Dead sea Scrolls are non-biblical.
And a good expamle of my point. As soon as something mention Jesus it becomes religious. There are a few such records, but again don't ask it's been a while sense I looked them up.


Aren't the Dead Sea Scrolls gospels that were left out of the bible?



Nope, I think if I remember right they were found in the mid 1900's (40s, 50s, or 60)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:07 pm 
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Not my field but I found this quote from Josephus:
=====
The following passage appears in the Greek version of Antiquities of the Jews xviii 3.3, in the translation of William Whiston:

3.3 Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
=====
Check Wikipedia. No, I'm not a Christian.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:21 pm 
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Ebolarama wrote:
eben wrote:
Ebolarama wrote:
eben wrote:
Is not the bible a historical record of Jesus?
And there are lot of other records that support events that have happen in the bible. I looked into a while back doing research, yet don't ask me today about it. I don't feel like do the research again just to prove a point. Trust me, there are some.

Seem amazing the Frederic guy, sound like he's talking out his butt.
I think one problem is any record of Jesus instantly becomes religious and for none believes then becomes instantly taboo.

Dead sea scrolls is one that come to mind.


I think he may have meant non-biblical records, as obviously the bible contains records of Christ. Also, the question pertains specifically to the existence of the savior, not to generic "events that have happened in the bible."


The Dead sea Scrolls are non-biblical.
And a good expamle of my point. As soon as something mention Jesus it becomes religious. There are a few such records, but again don't ask it's been a while sense I looked them up.


Aren't the Dead Sea Scrolls gospels that were left out of the bible?


I know it's frowned upon, but here is info I found on Wiki:
Quote:
The Dead Sea scrolls (Hebrew: מגילות ים המלח) comprise roughly 850 documents, including texts from the Hebrew Bible, discovered between 1947 and 1956 in eleven caves in and around the Wadi Qumran (near the ruins of the ancient settlement of Khirbet Qumran, on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea) in the West Bank. The texts are of great religious and historical significance, as they include practically the only known surviving copies of Biblical documents made before AD 100, and preserve evidence of considerable diversity of belief and practice within late Second Temple Judaism.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:20 pm 
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tauzero wrote:
Not my field but I found this quote from Josephus:
=====
The following passage appears in the Greek version of Antiquities of the Jews xviii 3.3, in the translation of William Whiston:

3.3 Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
=====
Check Wikipedia. No, I'm not a Christian.


There is evidence that this particular quote was added to the works of Josephus after his death and during the rise of the cult (at the time) of Christianity as a way to legitimize themselves.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:11 pm 
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Hey I found this site which list a bunch of non-biblical references for Jesus...

http://www.westarkchurchofchrist.org/library/extrabiblical.htm

It's pretty cool

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:54 pm 
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eben wrote:
Hey I found this site which list a bunch of non-biblical references for Jesus...

http://www.westarkchurchofchrist.org/library/extrabiblical.htm

It's pretty cool


That is pretty cool. However, the earliest date is around 50 AD, which would put it from 15-20 years after the fact. I'm not saying it is or isn't true (that's for each person to decide for themselves based on their beliefs and not what I or anyone else tries to say), if there was some mention of him from the years prior the Christian Church's organization, it would hold a lot more weight.

I guess if I'm going to make statements about religion I should state my beliefs. I was raised Catholic, yet only go to Church maybe once or twice a year. I consider myself a Christian, not because of believing or not believing that Jesus was the Son of God, but because I believe in the truth of what he taught of how each person should live with each other.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:47 pm 
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I've always found it very strange that the earliest non-biblical accounts of Christ were written decades after the fact. I know a lot of people say that nothing was written about him because both Romans and Jews feared legitimizing what he was saying by writing about it, but I find that a tad hard to believe, especially since the Romans were keeping very good records by that time.

I'm not saying he didn't exist, but it's something I've always found slightly strange.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:54 pm 
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Sort of a related story..

Tiny tablet provides proof for Old Testament

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... let111.xml

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:10 am 
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Hmm, perhaps we should talk to Phil Spector about a record for Jesus...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:13 am 
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partytildawn wrote:
Hmm, perhaps we should talk to Phil Spector about a record for Jesus...


You'd never hear Jesus himself due to the Wall Of SOund.


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