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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:11 pm 
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vadersp wrote:
circledancer wrote:
There is no proof of tomorrow either, but I chose to believe in it anyway.


And there was a time people had their hearts cut out and offered to a god so that tomorrow would come.

Today we know about planet rotation and the science behind the days changing. This allows us to accurately measure and predict time and the coming day. Without such proof that tomorrow would come, we'd all pray every time we set our alarm clocks.

So yes, there is proof of tomorrow. It's predictable, reliable, measurable and hasn't failed in billions of years.

There is still no proof of god.

I stand corrected.......I guess if I had to make an argument for the existence of a creator, I would have to begin with the countless examples of design and interaction that we see all around us....and even those that we can not see unaided, those inside ourselves or under the sea and in space. There is a certain elegance to the workings of everything that goes beyond the accidental. The motion of galaxies and the beating of a heart, all of it bound by a set of rules.
Perhaps our creator set the rules into motion and the smaller things spun out of it, adapting and changing until an ambiance was reached, still subject to change.
I see our minds as the seeds of GOD, we emerge into being and grow according to the conditions we find here.
I accept that there is more mystery than knowing in this life, I like it that things are strange and wonderful. I am not so arrogant as to believe that we are the most intelligent beings in the universe......without GOD, would that not be the case? ....If so, why bother?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:47 pm 
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circledancer wrote:
I stand corrected.......I guess if I had to make an argument for the existence of a creator, I would have to begin with the countless examples of design and interaction that we see all around us....and even those that we can not see unaided, those inside ourselves or under the sea and in space. There is a certain elegance to the workings of everything that goes beyond the accidental. OpinionThe motion of galaxies and the beating of a heart, all of it bound by a set of rules.Physics
Perhaps our creator set the rules into motion and the smaller things spun out of it, adapting and changing until an ambiance was reached, still subject to change.That would mean God did not create everything and is not in control of the universe, not all-knowing, and not all-powerful.
I see our minds as the seeds of GOD, we emerge into being and grow according to the conditions we find here. That's nature/nurture and proves we are what our environment makes us, not a soul with a personality tossed into a body.
I accept that there is more mystery than knowing in this life, I like it that things are strange and wonderful. I am not so arrogant as to believe that we are the most intelligent beings in the universeProbably a safe bet......without GOD, would that not be the case? ....If so, why bother?


Sorry, but you lost me on the last part. Do you mean there couldn't be aliens without god or life is pointless if there's no god?

I dunno, I just have never been one to sit in wonder at something and think it must be magic just because I don't know how it works. I like to look for explanations. You'd probably be surprised how many "mysteries" have actual explanations or very viable theories if you look for them.

It sometimes makes me think how much more advanced we'd be if more people started looking for answers instead of having faith "god did it" and that's good enough. The scarier thought is the opposite, how backwards we'd all be if everyone in history thought god was a good enough answer.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:52 pm 
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vadersp wrote:
circledancer wrote:
I stand corrected.......I guess if I had to make an argument for the existence of a creator, I would have to begin with the countless examples of design and interaction that we see all around us....and even those that we can not see unaided, those inside ourselves or under the sea and in space. There is a certain elegance to the workings of everything that goes beyond the accidental. OpinionThe motion of galaxies and the beating of a heart, all of it bound by a set of rules.Physics
Perhaps our creator set the rules into motion and the smaller things spun out of it, adapting and changing until an ambiance was reached, still subject to change.That would mean God did not create everything and is not in control of the universe, not all-knowing, and not all-powerful.
I see our minds as the seeds of GOD, we emerge into being and grow according to the conditions we find here. That's nature/nurture and proves we are what our environment makes us, not a soul with a personality tossed into a body.
I accept that there is more mystery than knowing in this life, I like it that things are strange and wonderful. I am not so arrogant as to believe that we are the most intelligent beings in the universeProbably a safe bet......without GOD, would that not be the case? ....If so, why bother?


The scarier thought is the opposite, how backwards we'd all be if everyone in history thought god was a good enough answer.

Just like the Middle East.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:27 pm 
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I do not suggest that anyone reject the things we have learned through science, or that we just sit in wide eyed wonder at every new thing that comes along.
I put no stock in religion of any kind, I do however believe in a power greater than MAN. Design is the product of a designer.
Yet you may say, life was put here by another species but it all comes back to a beginning, a singularity, a force of creation.
I do not find it reasonable to think that everything sprang from a series of cosmic accidents.
The most basic building blocks of life DNA are so incredibly complex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA the odds of it coming together as a matter of chance are astronomical and it only gets more involved from there.
Then there is the question of self (sentience), what purpose does that serve? Most living things get by without it. How did it come about? Why?
Can Man answer that question?
To dismiss a creator because we fail to quantify it, seems arrogant, from a species who can not seem to make peace with itself, whom it can see .

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:46 pm 
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I guess it's all in how people look at things.

When I think of DNA, sure it's complex...Now. It didn't start that way. Things started very simply and very basic and grew from there.

Look at life on earth, you have everything form a simple, dumb, non- self aware, one celled ameba to us.

It's evolution. There's no chance involved. Evolution is design, the bad designs are replaced by better ones. People commonly assume evolution means "by chance" it is not chance in any way, but the opposite.

And as for us not being able to make peace with ourselves, we did that once & god punished us. Read about the Tower of Babel. Our unity was payed back by scattering us and confusing our languages so we wouldn't get along. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:55 pm 
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vadersp wrote:
And as for us not being able to make peace with ourselves, we did that once & god punished us. Read about the Tower of Babel. Our unity was payed back by scattering us and confusing our languages so we wouldn't get along. :wink:


It wasn't the unity that was the problem, it was the arrogance. (Assuming one believes any of it)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:59 pm 
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vadersp wrote:
And as for us not being able to make peace with ourselves, we did that once & god punished us. Read about the Tower of Babel. Our unity was payed back by scattering us and confusing our languages so we wouldn't get along. :wink:

Maybe we have it all wrong. The tower was a PC made by Babel inc.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:47 am 
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vadersp wrote:
I guess it's all in how people look at things.

When I think of DNA, sure it's complex...Now. It didn't start that way. Things started very simply and very basic and grew from there.

Look at life on earth, you have everything form a simple, dumb, non- self aware, one celled ameba to us.

It's evolution. There's no chance involved. Evolution is design, the bad designs are replaced by better ones. People commonly assume evolution means "by chance" it is not chance in any way, but the opposite.

And as for us not being able to make peace with ourselves, we did that once & god punished us. Read about the Tower of Babel. Our unity was payed back by scattering us and confusing our languages so we wouldn't get along. :wink:

The law of biogenesis states that life comes only from previous life. Therefore prebiotic synthesis - which states that life first developed from nonliving molecules - contradicts a major law of science.
The amino peptide strands, in even the most basic DNA, have to occur in a specific sequence in order to function. for them to come together in perfect order surpasses the odds at which we consider something impossible. The simplest contain 100 amino acids.
Nucleic acids cannot replicate without the help of proteins. Proteins, however, cannot form unless specified by nucleic acid sequences. Thus, genetic systems could not have started naturally.
Just because all the the basic parts are present does not mean that they can come together in a meaningful way. If I put the pieces of a fine watch in a box and shook it up for a billion years, it would never come together into a watch....I know that is an oversimplified example but I think you get the point.
The Tower of Bable is most likely an allegory on the arrogance of man. It was built in a spirit of rebellion, to ascend into heaven. While interesting, The Bible, as we find it today, is at best an incomplete history. Shaped by men with agendas. So many of the writings were discarded when Constantine came to power and attempted to unite his kingdom under a single religion.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:23 am 
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circledancer wrote:
The Tower of Bable is most likely an allegory on the arrogance of man. It was built in a spirit of rebellion, to ascend into heaven. While interesting, The Bible, as we find it today, is at best an incomplete history. Shaped by men with agendas. So many of the writings were discarded when Constantine came to power and attempted to unite his kingdom under a single religion.


This is exactly the biggest flaw in the bible. People (not necessarily anyone here) seem to pick and choose what stories are allegory and then go on to claim other parts as fact, or "literal word of god".

CD, you blew my mind with the rest of the stuff. I'm not up on peptides & what not. :lol:

It seems like an interesting topic though. I'll read up on it and get back to you in a few days on that one.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:04 am 
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There is power in towers and church leaders don't want their towers destroyed by truth.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:08 am 
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The Atheist and the Shark

There is this atheist swimming in the ocean. All of the sudden he sees this shark in the water, so he starts swimming towards his boat.

As he looks back he sees the shark turn and head towards him. His boat is a ways off and he starts swimming like crazy. He's scared to death, and as he turns to see the jaws of the great white beast open revealing its teeth in a horrific splendor, the atheist screams, "Oh God! Save me!"

In an instant time is frozen and a bright light shines down from above. The man is motionless in the water when he hears the voice of God say, "You are an atheist. Why do you call upon me when you do not believe in me?"

Aghast with confusion and knowing he can't lie the man replies, "Well, that's true I don't believe in you, but how about the shark? Can you make the shark believe in you?"

The Lord replies, "As you wish," and the light retracted back into the heavens and the man could feel the water begin to move once again.

As the atheist looks back he can see the jaws of the shark start to close down on him, when all of sudden the shark stops and pulls back.

Shocked, the man looks at the shark as the huge beast closes its eyes and bows its head and says, "Thank you Lord for this food for which I am about to receive...

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:51 am 
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Intowishon wrote:
The Atheist and the Shark

There is this atheist swimming in the ocean. All of the sudden he sees this shark in the water, so he starts swimming towards his boat.

As he looks back he sees the shark turn and head towards him. His boat is a ways off and he starts swimming like crazy. He's scared to death, and as he turns to see the jaws of the great white beast open revealing its teeth in a horrific splendor, the atheist screams, "Oh God! Save me!"

In an instant time is frozen and a bright light shines down from above. The man is motionless in the water when he hears the voice of God say, "You are an atheist. Why do you call upon me when you do not believe in me?"

Aghast with confusion and knowing he can't lie the man replies, "Well, that's true I don't believe in you, but how about the shark? Can you make the shark believe in you?"

The Lord replies, "As you wish," and the light retracted back into the heavens and the man could feel the water begin to move once again.

As the atheist looks back he can see the jaws of the shark start to close down on him, when all of sudden the shark stops and pulls back.

Shocked, the man looks at the shark as the huge beast closes its eyes and bows its head and says, "Thank you Lord for this food for which I am about to receive...

:lol:

OK,

The Christian and the Cliff

A Christian man is hurrying through the mountains in his brand new convertible. He hears a song he enjoys and turns up the volume a bit. As he takes his eyes off the radio he looks at and touches his Mary statue sitting on his dashboard.

The man puts his eyes back on the road only to see a hairpin turn he has no hope of making and a cliff dead ahead of him. The tires screech in a vain attempt to stop and the car goes over the cliff. The car rolls a dozen times on it's way down the mountain.

The man opens his eyes expecting to see the gates of heaven but is shocked to see he landed on a branch sticking out of the mountain side. In a panic he soon tumbles off but manages to grab hold of the branch.

"God, please help me" the man cries. "I'm a good Christian lord, please!"

"Let go of the limb" a voice booms down.

"But if I let go, I'll fall and die" the man replies.

"Do you not have faith that the Lord will save you?" the voice asks.

"Well, OK". the man says. Then he lets go of the branch and falls to his death.

"Moron!" Says the hiker that was just passing by.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:52 pm 
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The hiker must of been an atheist. :lol: :lol:

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and the rational mind is a faithful servant.
We have created a society that honours the servant
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:26 pm 
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One of my hobbies is hand loading bullets. I was in a hurry on a Sunday morning and in my haste, I placed some completed bullets I was working on into my shirt pocket and went off to church.
After the service, as I was walking down the aisle, I looked up at the church balconey and there was a strange looking man glaring down at me. He started yelling something at me and took a large bible and threw it at me. It hit me right in the pocket with the bullets. So it was quite the miracle that the bullets saved my life from the bible.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:17 pm 
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Wouldn't want to live in a world where a passerby hiker murders an accident victim just because he's a christian. Wouldn't want to live in a world where maniac godshouters assault innocent reloaders. Luckily I don't live in either. 8)

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