The United States of Esoterica

Official forum of binnallofamerica.com
It is currently Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:45 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:08 am 
Offline
Skull and Bones Flunkie

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:06 am
Posts: 266
God, Evolution and Charles Darwin
Ten surprising things Darwin said about religious faith
Nick Spencer
Sep. 17, 2008
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 772296.ece

Next year is the big Darwin anniversary. Two hundred years after his birth and 150 after the publication of On the Origin of the Species, millions will celebrate the life and work of Charles Darwin, one of the most brilliant scientists in history, and a man who was thoroughly decent, honourable and likeable.

Unfortunately, he has become caught up in the crossfire of a battle in which Darwin exhibited little personal interest. On one side of this cartoonish debate are the creationists. Their precise numbers, in the UK, are uncertain, although the major survey Theos /ComRes are conducting into the public's beliefs about Darwinism, creationism and ID, which will be published next year, should help us find out more. Numbers aside, the point is that creationists dislike Darwin and regularly criticise him for supposedly undermining their religious beliefs.

In the other trench lie the militant Godless who – bizarrely – wholly agree with the creationists. Darwinism, they proclaim, does indeed undermine religious belief and a good thing too. Darwin is their icon and they frantically genuflect before his image, in a way brilliantly parodied by the satirical magazine The Onion.

The truth is, as ever, more complex. Darwin was too interesting, too careful a thinker to be caricatured in these ways. He was a Christian and yes, he did lose his faith. But he was never an atheist. He engaged in religious debate with friends but confessed to being in a hopeless "muddle". He agonised over whether the exquisite beauty of life on earth was worth the pain of natural selection. He hated religious controversy and was deeply respectful of others' views. He took upon himself the duties of a country parson whilst living at Downe and contributed to the South American Missionary Society. And, to top it all, he often doubted whether, his mind being evolved, he could even trust it in such matters. All in all, he was too complex, too subtle a man to be left to the polemicists.

So, in the interests, of rescuing him from the no-man's-land in which he has become trapped, here are 10 Darwin quotations, from his later years, which you are unlikely to hear from the mouths of either creationists or atheists in 2009.

1. "The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an Agnostic." (Autobiography)

2. "It seems to me absurd to doubt that a man may be an ardent Theist and an evolutionist." (Letter to John Fordyce, May 7 1879)

3. "I hardly see how religion and science can be kept as distinct as [Edward Pusey] desires... But I most wholly agree... that there is no reason why the disciples of either school should attack each other with bitterness." (Letter to J. Brodie Innes, November 27 1878)

4. "In my most extreme fluctuations I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God." (Letter to John Fordyce, May 7 1879)

5. "I think that generally (and more and more so as I grow older) but not always, that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind." (Letter to John Fordyce, May 7 1879)

6. "I am sorry to have to inform you that I do not believe in the Bible as a divine revelation, and therefore not in Jesus Christ as the son of God." (Letter to Frederick McDermott, November 24 1880)

7. [In conversation with the atheist Edward Aveling, 1881] "Why should you be so aggressive? Is anything gained by trying to force these new ideas upon the mass of mankind?" (Edward Aveling, The religious views of Charles Darwin, 1883)

8. "Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" (Letter to Graham William, July 3 1881)

9. "My theology is a simple muddle: I cannot look at the Universe as the result of blind chance, yet I can see no evidence of beneficent Design." (Letter to Joseph Hooker, July 12 1870)

10. "I can never make up my mind how far an inward conviction that there must be some Creator or First Cause is really trustworthy evidence." (Letter to Francis Abbot, September 6 1871)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:36 am 
Offline
Y2K Profiteer

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:15 am
Posts: 2186
Location: Buffalo,NY
Is there any new evidence that animals have changed since Darwin?

_________________
When the mob governs, man is ruled by ignorance; when the church governs, he is ruled by superstition; and when the state governs, he is ruled by fear. http://countdowntoapocalypse.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:29 pm 
Offline
Hoagland-esque

Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:26 pm
Posts: 147
Fazer wrote:
Is there any new evidence that animals have changed since Darwin?


Quite a bit actually, but you have to look at isolated populations under stress for that is where there is more chance of mutation and where successful mutations would be tested sooner.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:48 pm 
Offline
Rense Guest

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:09 pm
Posts: 20
Very interesting article on Darwin, thanks for posting.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:18 am 
Offline
Bilderburger Attendee

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:45 pm
Posts: 720
Location: In the Zombie Ghetto, being a ThreadKiller
davidg8089 wrote:
Fazer wrote:
Is there any new evidence that animals have changed since Darwin?


Quite a bit actually, but you have to look at isolated populations under stress for that is where there is more chance of mutation and where successful mutations would be tested sooner.


Allow me to rephrase the question to make it a little more stringent and focused, if you'll so indulge me.
Is there any new evidence of speciation due to the evolutionary process since Darwin?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:05 am 
Offline
Eleven Eleven Keyholder

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:22 am
Posts: 1204
Actually, none of these ten things is surprising, it wasnt until after Darwin that the divide grew as big as it is.

_________________
You're mechanical people.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:07 am 
Offline
Eleven Eleven Keyholder

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:22 am
Posts: 1204
VampElvis wrote:
davidg8089 wrote:
Fazer wrote:
Is there any new evidence that animals have changed since Darwin?


Quite a bit actually, but you have to look at isolated populations under stress for that is where there is more chance of mutation and where successful mutations would be tested sooner.


Allow me to rephrase the question to make it a little more stringent and focused, if you'll so indulge me.
Is there any new evidence of speciation due to the evolutionary process since Darwin?


Yes. Look at the work of Mindell, Kane, Chang and Lewis for Cave organisms for starters. Youll find the molecular clock coincides with the geological clock for cave invasion and morphological loss... leading to speciation.

_________________
You're mechanical people.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group