The United States of Esoterica

Official forum of binnallofamerica.com
It is currently Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:45 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:02 pm 
Offline
C2C Stalwart

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:57 am
Posts: 82
Stucifer wrote:
All this drummer debate got me thinking what makes for a good drummer?

Is it pure technical skill, or is it something else?

I think technical skill isn't the main thing. Take Dave Grohl for example. Is he the most technical drummer? No, but there is something about his style that makes him stand out. Nirvana was going nowhere until Dave joined. Even though most of the Nevermind drumming was already done by previous drummer Chad Channing, but the way Dave played it gave it something extra. Also the first two Foo fighter albums IMO are the best of them all, because Dave recorded the drums. His work on the first Tenacious D album as well as the Queens of the Stone Age album are great too. You know when it is Dave playing, it's very distinct, and has also worked out very well for any band that has had him play for them.

So while not the most technical drummer by any means, The fact that he has made so many bands thrive with his sheer presence is a testament to his importance as a drummer. I am sure you could add other drummers in this category as well, perhaps Keith Moon and Jon Bonham for example, as they were very distinct in both sound and presence.

But if Technical skill is what you consider to be the main factor, I would suggest checking out the dude from Fear factory. Some of the fastest foot work you will ever hear. Also Joey Jordison from Slipknot is a beast too.

I agree with this. It's the same thing with a guitar player, but if a drummer is too technical that can sometimes stifle the rock (while it might qualify as classical music). The case of Dave Grohl is great....everything he touches is good, especially when he's behind a kit. There are also drummers like Paul cook and Ringo Starr who are what you call a clock...the band is good because they are so steady on the beat that any band would sound amazing behind that drummer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:05 pm 
Offline
C2C Stalwart

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:57 am
Posts: 82
theorist wrote:
RustyShackleford wrote:
I also think Queensryche is a better band than Rush.....


i absolutely love queensryche. but rush is still my favorite.

I do like Rush, but I hadn't heard a drummer's perspective on Peart. It's enlightening because I hadn't considered the mechanics of sitting on the throne...I've been going as a guitarist as to what kind of drummers I like behind my playing. I can totally see why you'd dig Peart in that sense.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:06 pm 
Offline
Shadow Person

Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:28 pm
Posts: 1490
RustyShackleford wrote:
Stucifer wrote:
All this drummer debate got me thinking what makes for a good drummer?

Is it pure technical skill, or is it something else?

I think technical skill isn't the main thing. Take Dave Grohl for example. Is he the most technical drummer? No, but there is something about his style that makes him stand out. Nirvana was going nowhere until Dave joined. Even though most of the Nevermind drumming was already done by previous drummer Chad Channing, but the way Dave played it gave it something extra. Also the first two Foo fighter albums IMO are the best of them all, because Dave recorded the drums. His work on the first Tenacious D album as well as the Queens of the Stone Age album are great too. You know when it is Dave playing, it's very distinct, and has also worked out very well for any band that has had him play for them.

So while not the most technical drummer by any means, The fact that he has made so many bands thrive with his sheer presence is a testament to his importance as a drummer. I am sure you could add other drummers in this category as well, perhaps Keith Moon and Jon Bonham for example, as they were very distinct in both sound and presence.

But if Technical skill is what you consider to be the main factor, I would suggest checking out the dude from Fear factory. Some of the fastest foot work you will ever hear. Also Joey Jordison from Slipknot is a beast too.

I agree with this. It's the same thing with a guitar player, but if a drummer is too technical that can sometimes stifle the rock (while it might qualify as classical music). The case of Dave Grohl is great....everything he touches is good, especially when he's behind a kit. There are also drummers like Paul cook and Ringo Starr who are what you call a clock...the band is good because they are so steady on the beat that any band would sound amazing behind that drummer.


Buddy Rich thought Ringo sucked ! :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:13 pm 
Offline
C2C Stalwart

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:57 am
Posts: 82
MYSTERYMAN wrote:
RustyShackleford wrote:
Stucifer wrote:
All this drummer debate got me thinking what makes for a good drummer?

what you call a clock...the band is good because they are so steady on the beat that any band would sound amazing behind that drummer.


Buddy Rich thought Ringo sucked ! :lol:

Here's a story that you might not hear often, but the big reason Ringo got into the Beatles was not his skill as a drummer per se, but his ability to reproduce the same beat in take after take. It became valuable when they started experimenting because he could reliably drum on each take the same way he did in the last. I know this is oversimplified, but it's still something that many drummers can't do and is why he's called a "clock". Same thing with Paul Cook and Phil Rudd. Of course, this was back in the day when tape was expensive so retakes were discouraged...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:42 pm 
Offline
C2C Stalwart

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:57 am
Posts: 82
Of course, we can take the pressure off some of the drummers (giving them room to breathe), since really, the most important part of a great band is the bassplayer (you don't believe me? a great band can get by with a shitty drummer, but not a shitty bassplayer). So, here's a list of great bassplayers:
1) John Enthwhistle
2) Phil Lynott
3) Geddy Lee
4) John Paul Jones
5) Krist Novoselic
6) Lemmy
7) Bill Wyman
8) Roger Glover
9) Duff McKagan
10) Steve Harris


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:56 am 
Offline
Merovingian
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:30 pm
Posts: 3699
Location: Right Coast
MYSTERYMAN wrote:
Buddy Rich thought Ringo sucked ! :lol:


the thing about the beatles is that ringo never had any real hard patterns or difficult grooves to play. it's all very simple material. there's not a lot of skill required in what ringo played.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:40 pm 
Offline
Low Initiate Freemason

Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:30 pm
Posts: 190
Buddy Rich was a great drummer the way Liberace was a great pianist. He wasn't.

Like somebody else said, Ringo isn't a flashy drummer, but he is extremely consistent and a good time-keeper. Among other things, that made him a GREAT asset in the studio. He played on all but about a half-dozen Beatles tracks, and most of the ones he didn't play on were very early tracks. His bandmates -- and more importantly, George Martin -- thought highly enough of Ringo to use him at virtually every recording session they ever did.

You might be shocked how many drummers in big-time, world-famous bands don't actually play on the albums they record. Nowadays, a drummer in the studio often needs to lay down his/her track to a click-track or a sequencer. Many very, very good live drummers simply can't wrap their heads around that, and in the studio a session player has to replace them.

One example that comes to mind is Frank Beard, the drummer for ZZ Top. Their 80s albums like Eliminator tended to use very locked-down rhythm tracks that required incredibly consistent drumming. As good a drummer as he is live, he just couldn't pull that off in the studio -- the producer brought in a session guy instead.

I think it Keith Moon or Bonham were alive today, they might point to Dave Grohl as the best drummer in the business right now. Never mind Nirvana (no pun intended!) -- listen to Queens of the Stone Age's "Songs For The Deaf," and you'll hear Grohl practically split the universe with his drum kit.


Last edited by mstuartm on Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:47 pm 
Offline
Low Initiate Freemason

Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:30 pm
Posts: 190
theorist wrote:
MYSTERYMAN wrote:
Buddy Rich thought Ringo sucked ! :lol:


the thing about the beatles is that ringo never had any real hard patterns or difficult grooves to play. it's all very simple material. there's not a lot of skill required in what ringo played.


Man I love talking about this stuff...I think you're right on one level (Ringo wasn't a technically proficient drummer) but it's a mistake to play down his creative contribution as a drummer.

The Wikipedia article on Ringo has a great quote from Steve Smith:

"Before Ringo, drum stars were measured by their soloing ability and virtuosity. Ringo's popularity brought forth a new paradigm in how the public saw drummers. We started to see the drummer as an equal participant in the compositional aspect. One of Ringo's great qualities was that he composed unique, stylistic drum parts for The Beatles songs. His parts are so signature to the songs that you can listen to a Ringo drum part without the rest of the music and still identify the song."

When I read that, I immediately thought about the drum part from "A Day In The Life." Not flashy, but brilliantly appropriate for the song -- no mean feat when you consider just how unique and quirky that song is.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:41 pm 
Offline
Merovingian
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:30 pm
Posts: 3699
Location: Right Coast
mstuartm wrote:
One example that comes to mind is Frank Beard, the drummer for ZZ Top. Their 80s albums like Eliminator tended to use very locked-down rhythm tracks that required incredibly consistent drumming. As good a drummer as he is live, he just couldn't pull that off in the studio -- the producer brought in a session guy instead.


i did not know that. that's very interesting. i thought beard did all the studio work.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:54 pm 
Offline
Merovingian
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:30 pm
Posts: 3699
Location: Right Coast
hey mysteryman what kind of drums do you play? i like pearl myself. i have two pearl kits.

there are many companies out there that make quality drums like dw, ludwig, sonor, tama and yamaha. i see yamaha makes a kit from oak wood. never heard an oak kit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:42 pm 
Offline
Shadow Person

Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:28 pm
Posts: 1490
Slingerland and Tama Octabans ! Zildjians . 8) Octabans rule !!!! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:57 am 
Offline
C2C Stalwart

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:57 am
Posts: 82
theorist wrote:
MYSTERYMAN wrote:
Buddy Rich thought Ringo sucked ! :lol:


the thing about the beatles is that ringo never had any real hard patterns or difficult grooves to play. it's all very simple material. there's not a lot of skill required in what ringo played.

No, but Ringo invented Rock drumming. The only other one you can compare him to from the time is Dennis Wilson.
and if you listen to everything that Ringo did...he is a badass drummer...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:04 am 
Offline
C2C Stalwart

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:57 am
Posts: 82
And that (to return to the original question), is why the Sex Pistols are the best punk band of alll time....
Steve Jones>Andy Taylor, Glen Matlock>Mick Jones. Cook isa clock. and Johnny Rotten>Joe Simonon


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:30 pm 
Offline
Merovingian
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:30 pm
Posts: 3699
Location: Right Coast
MYSTERYMAN wrote:
Slingerland and Tama Octabans ! Zildjians . 8) Octabans rule !!!! :D


how about some pictures? i'll post pics of my kits. perhaps we should make a new thread just for instrument pictures. what do you think?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Band Ever
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:37 am 
Offline
Friend of the Illuminati

Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:23 pm
Posts: 1859
Location: Arkansas
Rusty, I'm no expert or will I even try to be, but where would you rate Nikki Sixx on bass? I love all of his stuff and when he is with Tommy Lee there is just something about the mix of those two that is just incredible in my opinion.

(And yes, I admit to being a Cruehead)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group