The United States of Esoterica

Monday Night Raw 2013
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Author:  redsonsuperman [ Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

binnall wrote:
Not sure if you are snarking at their ad or not, but WWWF was based in NYC and had Boston, Philly, New Jersey, and CT as part of its territory. Hardly a small regional territory.

WWF succeeded in the 1980's because it invaded other promotions' territories, stole their top stars, and 'stole' the local promotions TV time slots by paying for them (since regional leagues generally got their time slots for free and couldn't compete when WWF offered to pay the stations for the time slot).

While WWF was doing this, the regional territories refused to believe national expansion was inevitable and, by the time they did, it was too late, since they had lost their top stars, TV time slots, and were perceived as 2nd rate or minor league due to national TV coverage of WWF's national expansion. Attempts were made to unite the regional promotions, like Pro Wrestling USA and the AWA Supercard, but multiple agendas and business interests couldn't compete with the singular vision and drive of WWF.

Plus, WWF got in on the ground floor of PPV and proceeded to lock out the NWA/WCW until they had gotten a huge head start. Then the NWA/WCW proceeded to make a bunch of mistakes when they finally did get on PPV.

Bill Watts tried and came close to going national, but it was too late. The oil bust in the mid-south killed the regional economy and the UWF couldn't afford to pay for their TV syndication network, sold out to NWA/WCW, which then was run by imcompetents until the Monday Night Wars, when they got lucky by spending a ton and falling ass backwards into the NWO angle / Hogan heel turn, until they overpaid for under talented stars and had atrocious booking that killed their fan base.

That led Time Warner, now in control of WCW, (which no longer had a sympathetic Ted Turner willing to let them exist in the red forever), to pull the plug on WCW's two signature national TV shows, rendering the promotion virtually worthless. That is when WWF cut a sweetheart deal, bought WCW for pennies on the dollar and established itself as the sole remaining promotion.

Approximately six months prior to the WCW purchase (actually around the same time WWF almost bought WCW the first time), WWF went public with their IPO and gave them an insane financial advantage over any future competitors, assuring them of continued dominance for years, if not decades, to come.

The end, lol.

Yes, I was snarking on their ad for the new video. THEY ACTUALLY USED THE WORDS "how a small regional promotion became a worldwide phenomenon"

BUT that's typical of ol' shithead Vince to rewrite history his way.

BTW, you did a nice recap of the history of Vince's assault on the territories, although I think you left out World Class :mrgreen:
You could have said something like, a great promotion until all the Von Erichs died.... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Author:  redsonsuperman [ Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

While I'm on an anti-Vince rant,

how lame are these storylines.

they pushed Daniel Bryan and CM Punk aside for a lame stupid tag team match.

after a huge storyline of how Bryan isn't a A-lister, they're about to do a 180 on their face of the franchise. AND WORSE, they had Orton say he couldn't win without the Shield's help.

Assume this sets up the Shield as the dominant force BUT -- they could have gotten to that a lot quicker than they have.
I think the Shield have lost their luster by now. AND that group lacks a talker, so they're will ultimately be a failed attempt at a supergroup.

I wouldn't take the Shield over any memorable group:
The Horsemen? no way.
The Freebirds?
The Heenan Family
The Road Warriors w/Paul Ellring.
The Russians (Ivan, Nikita and Kruschev)
The Rat Pack (DiBiase, Borne, Duggan)
Okay, maybe the Von Erichs. :wink:

Author:  binnall [ Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

Responding to your most recent post which came in while I was writing the screed below, I can only give you one piece of good info, which Dave Meltzer reported, which is that WWE is really high on Roman Reigns. So he is going to get the big push soon and they'll probably invest in him more because he has the A-list look. Seriously, life does imitate art in WWE. That said, I'm a Reigns fan and if he takes off and bumps Cena out as the centerpiece of the league, then I'm all for it.

Now, onto your earlier post ...

Haven't seen the commercial yet, because the Patriots are on MNF, so WWE has to wait to get the DVR treatment. I actually prefer that, since I can cut the three hour show down to about 45 minutes, which is sad but true.

I forget the exact problems which felled World Class, aside from the Von Erichs dying. I do recall that Fritz refused to ever have them fight each other, so the promotion was essentially forced to create three or four top heels at a time, which caught fire with the Freebirds, but wasn't sustainable in the long run.

Ultimately, WCCW didn't have the finances or probably the talent depth to go national (they didn't just lose the Von Erichs who died, they also lost Gino Hernandez and a lot of guys who jumped to UWF or NWA). Though they apparently tried a couple of times and WWF, true to their style, used a lot of their visual aesthetic which had been a hit on TV.

At the end of the day, if WCCW, NWA and UWF worked together or some crazy asshole bought them all and ran it himself (Ted Turner technically bought NWA & UWF, but turned it over to morons), there could have been two viable, competing national promotions coming out of the 1980's, rather than WCW being a distant 2nd for years until Nitro debuted.

Author:  redsonsuperman [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

I don't know what is worse, having a bad gimmick and getting folded into another bad gimmick like Tensai OR being Xavier Woods and not having a gimmick a all, other than being the new guy.

I'd remake brodus clay as The brodosaurus, pretend he is an actual Godzilla like creature and spit mist on his opponents a la great Muta.

And make tensei his handler.

Author:  redsonsuperman [ Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

Finally heard JBL use the Oak Island line..also mentioned moon hoax conspiracy.

Oak Island. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 8)

Author:  binnall [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

I should start posting my Raw grades in here. After every Raw for the last month, I've texted Vaeni my grade for Raw on a 10 point scale. (poor Vaeni has to watch the show on a massive delay because he lives in Hawaii. I know, I know, he's really suffering).

Anyway, thought tonight's show was a 7/10 maybe even a 7.5 out of 10. FWIW, I gave the last two shows 6/10s, Survivor Series a bad score, which necessitated the creation of the scoring system, and the Raw before SS was an 8/10 (Big E title win, Miz turn, Rey return, Xavier Woods debut, and very good main event)

Tonight had that amazing final segment which really teased the start of WM season and some good stuff with the Brodus Clay potential turn and the Shield dissention. It also gave me great faith that WWE realizes Daniel Bryan is their most over guy and perhaps his story is not over, especially if he fights Michaels @ WM, which is looking increasingly likely.

I expect TLC to be around 7/10, since the main event should be pretty good and most of the undercard matches have actual stories behind them. Would like to see a few more gimmick matches, though. I also expect the rest of Raw matches through December to be pretty bad until January starts the kick off to the Royal Rumble, but we shall see.

Author:  redsonsuperman [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013


Finale with the champs
Kofi Miz
Sin cara del rio
Ambrose punk
Animosity of shield
Hyping Bryan in his hometown to st at show and finish of finale

Brodus clay turn start/tag match
Wyatt family Match

Sandow santino
8man tag Match
Divas Match

Author:  binnall [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

I don't disagree with your assessments, though I'd put the Slammys into 'Filler' rather than 'Bad.' Given WWE's fondness for bad comedy, they could have been very, very bad. At worst, they were inoffensive and boring.

I grade the Brodus match/turn tease higher than you because I have some weird affinity for Tons of Funk and whatever developments happen with their characters. As Vaeni can attest, I was super high on Tensai when they first signed him and have enjoyed watching his 'evolution' the last two years even though he just stays stuck in the lower mid card. So whenever something happens with Tensai or ToF, I consider it the equivalent of a main event angle, even though it is anything but. Yes, I am insane.

Despite last night's shenanigans, the rumor is that ToF will both be turning and will become a monster heel team. As such, I was expecting Tensai to swerve last night and, after holding Brodus back, spin around and attack R-Truth. That, alone, would have bumped my score up to an 8/10.

Also, fwiw, Triple H has decreed that 2014 will be the very tag team centric, so that's why there are already like 10 teams and that will probably increase. Can't say I disagree with the idea, since it provides something to do for some guys who have nothing better to do (Ryback & Axel for instance).

Author:  redsonsuperman [ Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

:evil: what i would do at wrestlemania

Miz vs. Kofi Kingston

Fandango vs, Sandow

Real Americans vs. usos

Rhodes and goldust vs. Ryback and axel

Divas cage match

Big e. Langston vs. mark Henry

Brodus vs. tenai

John cena vs. big show vs. del rio vs. Barrett for vacant us title
Ambrose gives up title for shield chance to end taker streak

Cm punk vs. randy orton for unified title

Shawn michaels, triple h and daniel bryan vs, Wyatt family

The shield vs. undertaker

Author:  binnall [ Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

I take it this is presuming no returning or outside stars like Rock, Hogan, Lesnar, Goldberg, or Sting? (all of whom have been mentioned for WM in varying degrees)

Author:  redsonsuperman [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

I think those last 3 would create. A good buy rate.

Author:  binnall [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

WMXXX doesn't need a good buyrate. It's needs a historic, astronomical buyrate. It is the event which will launch the network and also should reflect the historic nature of the 30th Wrestlemania. No offense, RSS, but the card you drafted looks like a SummerSlam event, not WMXXX (though I do love the Diva cage match, lol, and I've heard that Henry v. Langston is a working plan for some point).

Later, I will draft the ideal WMXXX card using only available stars and also a 'dream' card that is still plausible in 2013 (i.e. no Flair v. Steamboat match).

Author:  Superdanwonder5 [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

Two of my predictions are Daniel Bryan wins the Royal Rumble and faces whoever the champ is and CM Punk against HHH. I don't think Shawn Michaels is gonna wrestle another match but I hope I'm wrong, it's is WMXXX after all.

Author:  binnall [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

binnall wrote:
Later, I will draft the ideal WMXXX card using only available stars and also a 'dream' card that is still plausible in 2013 (i.e. no Flair v. Steamboat match).

Here's my WMXXX ... using plausible guys for 2014 (swap out Big Show w. Hogan and Lesnar w. Sting to get the dream card)

Undertaker v. Lesnar
CM Punk v. Randy Orton for Unified Title
John Cena & Big Show v. HHH & Batista ... for 'control' of WWE
Daniel Bryan v. Shawn Michaels
The Shield v. The Wyatts
Cody Rhodes v. Goldust
Real Americans v. Usos v. Tons of Funk v. Ryback & Axel v. Primetime Players v. any other 'teams'
Mark Henry v. Big E. Langston
Sin Cara v. Rey Mysterio
Divas Match

10 matches, everyone gets a paycheck and most if not all are 'fresh' matchups.

Author:  redsonsuperman [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Monday Night Raw 2013

Lesnar beating taker would be a travesty.

I think a 3 on 1 shield vs. undertaker to keep the streak alive would be a big sell.

Nobody really believes the streak can end without some kind of cheat Ina 1 on 1. This way, taker has to earn his ppv payday.

And if Hhh and michaels left their partner Bryan to fend for himself vs. the Wyatt's. that would be a good way to raise him even hipgher. Then have Michaels come in at last second to deliver a kick, helping Bryan get the win.

Ah, who cares. Vince will make some silly shit with his son in law probably ending up with the belt.

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