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 Post subject: NDE's; It's just gas
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:38 am 
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Y2K Profiteer

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:15 am
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Location: Buffalo,NY
James Owen

for National Geographic News

Published April 8, 2010

Near-death experiences are tricks of the mind triggered by an overload of carbon dioxide in the bloodstream, a new study suggests.

Many people who have recovered from life-threatening injuries have said they experienced their lives flashing before their eyes, saw bright lights, left their bodies, or encountered angels or dead loved ones.

In the new study, researchers investigated whether different levels of oxygen and carbon dioxide—the main blood gases—play a role in the mysterious phenomenon.

The team studied 52 heart attack patients who had been admitted to three major hospitals and were eventually resuscitated. Eleven of the patients reported near-death experiences.

During cardiac arrest and resuscitation, blood gases such as CO2 rise or fall because of the lack of circulation and breathing.

"We found that in those patients who experienced the phenomenon, blood carbon-dioxide levels were significantly higher than in those who did not," said team member Zalika Klemenc-Ketis, of the University of Maribor in Slovenia.

(Related: "Creepy 'Shadow Person' Effect Conjured by Brain Shocks.")

CO2 Only Common Factor in Near-Death Experiences

Other factors, such a patient's sex, age, or religious beliefs—or the time it took to revive them—had no bearing on whether the patients reported near-death experiences.

The drugs used during initial treatment—a suggested explanation for near-death experiences after heart attacks—also didn't seem to correlate with the sensations, according to the study authors.

(Related: "Ancient Death-Smile Potion Decoded?")

How carbon dioxide might actually interact with the brain to produce near-death sensations was beyond the scope of the study, so for now "the exact pathophysiological mechanism for this is not known," Klemenc-Ketis said.

However, people who have inhaled excess carbon dioxide or have been at high altitudes, which can raise the blood's CO2 concentrations, have been known to have sensations similar to near-death experiences, she said. (Related: "High-Altitude Suits Keep Pressure on Pilots.")

A Glimpse of the Afterlife?

The study is among the first to find a direct link between carbon dioxide in the blood and near-death experiences, or NDEs, said Christopher French, a psychologist at the Anomalistic Psychology Research Unit of the University of London, who was not involved in the new research.

The hospital study bolsters previous lab work done in the 1950s that found "the effects of hypercarbia [abnormally high levels of CO2 in the blood] were very similar to what we would now recognise as NDEs," French said in an email.

The research also supports the argument that anything that disinhibits the brain—damages the brain's ability to manage impulses—can produce near-death sensations, he said. Physical brain injury, drugs, and delirium have all been associated with a disinhibited state, and CO2 overload is another potential trigger.

Still, not all scientists are convinced: "The one difficulty in arguing that CO2 is the cause is that in cardiac arrests, everybody has high CO2 but only 10 percent have NDEs," said neuropsychiatrist Peter Fenwick of the Institute of Psychiatry at Kings College London.

What's more, in heart attack patients, Fenwick said, "there is no coherent cerebral activity which could support consciousness, let alone an experience with the clarity of an NDE."

The main alternative is that near-death experiences are "evidence of consciousness becoming separated from the physical substrate of the brain, possibly even a glimpse of an afterlife," the University of London's French noted.

But for him, at least, "the latest results argue strongly against such a hypothesis."

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 Post subject: Re: NDE's; It's just gas
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:08 pm 
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Modern Day Nephilim

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:52 am
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"It was just swamp gas."
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: NDE's; It's just gas
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:29 pm 
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Oil Industry Executive

Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:12 pm
Posts: 2297
Location: Louisiana
Any time you see the words "a new study says", you can just go ahead and regard whatever you're reading as utter horseshit.

My favorite part:

Quote:
How carbon dioxide might actually interact with the brain to produce near-death sensations was beyond the scope of the study, so for now "the exact pathophysiological mechanism for this is not known," Klemenc-Ketis said.


In other words, "We have no idea how or why this would happen, but because we established a corollary under less than controlled circumstances clearly it's the cause."

Science is broken and the scientific method is dead. Anyone that tells you otherwise is blind.

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 Post subject: Re: NDE's; It's just gas
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:41 pm 
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Skull and Bones Flunkie

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:22 pm
Posts: 269
Location: Canada
Orpheus wrote:
Any time you see the words "a new study says", you can just go ahead and regard whatever you're reading as utter horseshit.

My favorite part:

Quote:
How carbon dioxide might actually interact with the brain to produce near-death sensations was beyond the scope of the study, so for now "the exact pathophysiological mechanism for this is not known," Klemenc-Ketis said.


In other words, "We have no idea how or why this would happen, but because we established a corollary under less than controlled circumstances clearly it's the cause."

Science is broken and the scientific method is dead. Anyone that tells you otherwise is blind.


I agree. Science as a whole is all whacked out these days. Any asshole can post some 'research' or 'study' online and people will run with it.

I think though, that the scientific method itself is sound, it's the people using it that are messed up. Having said that, the scientific method is utterly useless in studying anything that can not be controlled i.e. the paranormal. Until we come up with a 'scientific method 2.0' or some new way of thinking, these sorts of issues will never be proven one way or another.

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 Post subject: Re: NDE's; It's just gas
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:05 pm 
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Hoagland-esque

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:25 am
Posts: 111
Fazer wrote:
During cardiac arrest and resuscitation, blood gases such as CO2 rise or fall


I wonder how NDEs occur under other circumstances, such as auto accidents, which I personally experienced (my life flashed before my eyes just before we hit the side of a mountain.)

You would think that, to disprove their hypothesis, they would look for evidence of NDEs under circumstances other than cardiac arrest.

As SF would say, don't bother me with the facts.

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 Post subject: Re: NDE's; It's just gas
PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:14 pm 
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Hoagland-esque

Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:25 am
Posts: 111
Stucifer wrote:
I think though, that the scientific method itself is sound


True in many cases but science has a fatal flaw, in that it disregards the subjective in favor of objectivity. By definition it cannot address the fundamental quality of the human experience, which is a pretty big limitation.

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 Post subject: Re: NDE's; It's just gas
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:19 pm 
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Skull and Bones Flunkie

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:22 pm
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Location: Canada
Area51 wrote:
Stucifer wrote:
I think though, that the scientific method itself is sound


True in many cases but science has a fatal flaw, in that it disregards the subjective in favor of objectivity. By definition it cannot address the fundamental quality of the human experience, which is a pretty big limitation.



Exactly. That's what I was getting at, but you explained it way better then I would have lol

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 Post subject: Re: NDE's; It's just gas
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:15 am
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Location: Buffalo,NY
Also, what about the cases where they have NDE's and fly around the hospital room and can tell exactly what happened to them during their operation. Maybe another type of gas.

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 Post subject: Re: NDE's; It's just gas
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:24 pm 
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Member of Trilateral Commission

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 7:37 am
Posts: 528
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Quote:
Also, what about the cases where they have NDE's and fly around the hospital room and can tell exactly what happened to them during their operation. Maybe another type of gas.


Scientists sometimes find it more beneficial to their point to ignore certain aspects that don't fit with their hypothesis.

When I was 19 I took a psychology course and one of the assignments was to do a research paper on near-death experiences. I went into the project completely skeptical. In my mind there was nothing outside the realm of what science could prove. Life after death was a superstition. I came out of the project having my entire belief structure altered.


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 Post subject: Re: NDE's; It's just gas
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:29 pm 
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Shadow Person

Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:28 pm
Posts: 1490
jboston wrote:
Quote:
Also, what about the cases where they have NDE's and fly around the hospital room and can tell exactly what happened to them during their operation. Maybe another type of gas.


Scientists sometimes find it more beneficial to their point to ignore certain aspects that don't fit with their hypothesis.

When I was 19 I took a psychology course and one of the assignments was to do a research paper on near-death experiences. I went into the project completely skeptical. In my mind there was nothing outside the realm of what science could prove. Life after death was a superstition. I came out of the project having my entire belief structure altered.

I believe in it !!!! 8) We are more than just flesh and bone ! We have a soul !!!


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