The United States of Esoterica

Official forum of binnallofamerica.com
It is currently Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:15 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:16 pm 
Offline
Low Initiate Freemason

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:57 am
Posts: 195
Thought I'd try to crowdsource this question with the esteemed followers of THEUSOFE.COM:

Came across an online post saying that Whitley Strieber gave an interview with Art Bell sometime in between mid-1998 and 2001 describing his encounter with the so-called Master of the Key.

The Coast to Coast website shows a gap between an appearance in Feb. 1998 and 2001.

Anybody remember Strieber giving an audio interview between mid-1998 (when the encounter supposedly happened) and the publication of the book in 2001/2002? If not with Art Bell, maybe with somebody else?

Thanks in advance.

_________________
Balls on Fire


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:55 pm 
Offline
Hoagland-esque

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Pataskala, Oh
Who's Whitley Streiber?

_________________
"I try every day to do as much good as I can, and as little harm as possible"
Unknown


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:33 pm 
Offline
CFR Fat Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:54 pm
Posts: 393
Mr Owl wrote:
Who's Whitley Streiber?


Image

"Whose Whitley Strieber?" Classic, I love this guy.

Here he is looking all Colonel Sanders/Civil War.
He brought the anal probe by aliens into notoriety.

I have to mirror Grokl sentiments.
Mr. Owl needs to be fast tracked to the next echelon of potential ANTS

Mr. Owl is eclipsing Mr. Dee at this point. (And that is not take away from Mr. Dee, he is a fine candidate)

Vamp may have the popular vote, but there is some serious wildcard action going on here.

_________________
"People don't want UFO information, they want to be entertained by UFO story tellers." Jan Aldrich

"Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine" Henry David Thoreau

"Never go with a hippie to a second location." Jack Donaghy

"Hey, I know that dude" Jeff Spicoli


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:19 pm 
Offline
Hoagland-esque

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Pataskala, Oh
Hey Veil,

Me dont no bery moch..I is retided. But seriously, Veil, I am glad you're the who responded because from what I've seen so far, you're the shit. That picture of Whit is fucking hilarious! Thank You! Truth is, I was just busting Old Ball's balls, because judging from some his recent posts, he could use an incredulous laugh. Ol' Ball is a fine thinker, however. You just can't take these subjects so seriously ALL the time. Believe me, I know.

The first book by Strieber that I read was War Day in 1985 when I was 12. My dad gave it to me because I had a unusual fear of nuclear war. The next one I read was, predictably, Communion. Although this old story, mentioned time and again, is cliched at this point, I'll never forget when I first saw the book. It must have been 1988, when I was 15, when I saw it in a carousel book rack in a Stop n Go. The cover had a powerful effect on me, although I didn't understand why, I had to get that book. It did change my life, and opened the 'door', with astonishing results. I found myself nodding my head through the entire book. It helped explain some things in the past which I never forgot but was unable to define or understand.

I have followed his work ever since, from his non-fiction to his fiction. I try to take his non-fiction with a grain of salt, but I've often found a great deal of corroboration in his work, nonetheless. In my opinion, one of his most important fictional works is Nature's End. I don't ever hear it mentioned.

I've been told I have very dry sense of humor. The reason I was trying to engage Ol' Balls was not about C2C, which I admittedly don't know much about as I need to sleep, but because of the real subject of his post. The Key and the 'MOTK'. I bought a copy of the first printing back when I really wanted to believe in what Whit had been espousing. I have heard and read many inconsistencies and contradictions since then from Strieber in the years since that have really irritated me. Especially since the re-issue of The Key in its 'untampered with' form. I haven't and won't read it. And as a side note, Solving The Communion Enigma sucked.

So, I really would like to engage Ol' Balls in a discussion on this issue for I do find it troubling. As for Grokl, well, I did kind of burst onto the scene and ruffled some feathers in the process, and apparently his especially. I didn't mean to kill the ANTS voting thread, honest. I couldn't help myself in making that last comment. Peace

_________________
"I try every day to do as much good as I can, and as little harm as possible"
Unknown


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:00 am 
Offline
Low Initiate Freemason

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:57 am
Posts: 195
Bust my balls? Absolutely! Why, my posts here haven't a trace of humor. Not a dirty little smear.

As for Strieber and "The Key": I had the unlucky privilege of being the one who brought all the changes to Strieber's attention. Then he went on the air and cried 'censorship'. So I did a detailed list of all the changes, showed that most were purely editorial, and even wrote about how Strieber had read aloud from the 'censored' version during his online audio commentaries. This discovery was later picked up (a year later) by Areolae Whoresley in his truly awful piece on Reality Sandwich and presented as his own.

Nonsensical 'ball-busting' aside, the whole story around "The Key" is quite something.

_________________
Balls on Fire


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:29 am 
Offline
Modern Day Nephilim

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:52 am
Posts: 3423
Location: the D
Old Balls wrote:
Bust my balls? Absolutely! Why, my posts here haven't a trace of humor. Not a dirty little smear.

As for Strieber and "The Key": I had the unlucky privilege of being the one who brought all the changes to Strieber's attention. Then he went on the air and cried 'censorship'. So I did a detailed list of all the changes, showed that most were purely editorial, and even wrote about how Strieber had read aloud from the 'censored' version during his online audio commentaries. This discovery was later picked up (a year later) by Areolae Whoresley in his truly awful piece on Reality Sandwich and presented as his own.

Nonsensical 'ball-busting' aside, the whole story around "The Key" is quite something.



Tell us more, OB: Still got the list of all the changes?

_________________
"I didn't need to learn what I learned today." -- Jesse Ventura.
"There is but one special interest that we should be working for, and that would solve just about all of our problems, and that is our liberty. " - Ron Paul.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:35 am 
Offline
Low Initiate Freemason

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:57 am
Posts: 195
Brother, ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.scribd.com/heinrich66

The two later PDFs deal directly with "The Key", including the one called "Complete List of Changes". You can guess what's in that.

The "Strieber Defense" PDF was done in response to the infamous Kephas piece in 2008.

Cheers.

_________________
Balls on Fire


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:20 am 
Offline
CFR Fat Cat
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:54 pm
Posts: 393
Mr Owl wrote:
Hey Veil,

Me dont no bery moch..I is retided. But seriously, Veil, I am glad you're the who responded because from what I've seen so far, you're the shit. That picture of Whit is fucking hilarious! Thank You! Truth is, I was just busting Old Ball's balls, because judging from some his recent posts, he could use an incredulous laugh. Ol' Ball is a fine thinker, however. You just can't take these subjects so seriously ALL the time. Believe me, I know.

The first book by Strieber that I read was War Day in 1985 when I was 12. My dad gave it to me because I had a unusual fear of nuclear war. The next one I read was, predictably, Communion. Although this old story, mentioned time and again, is cliched at this point, I'll never forget when I first saw the book. It must have been 1988, when I was 15, when I saw it in a carousel book rack in a Stop n Go. The cover had a powerful effect on me, although I didn't understand why, I had to get that book. It did change my life, and opened the 'door', with astonishing results. I found myself nodding my head through the entire book. It helped explain some things in the past which I never forgot but was unable to define or understand.

I have followed his work ever since, from his non-fiction to his fiction. I try to take his non-fiction with a grain of salt, but I've often found a great deal of corroboration in his work, nonetheless. In my opinion, one of his most important fictional works is Nature's End. I don't ever hear it mentioned.

I've been told I have very dry sense of humor. The reason I was trying to engage Ol' Balls was not about C2C, which I admittedly don't know much about as I need to sleep, but because of the real subject of his post. The Key and the 'MOTK'. I bought a copy of the first printing back when I really wanted to believe in what Whit had been espousing. I have heard and read many inconsistencies and contradictions since then from Strieber in the years since that have really irritated me. Especially since the re-issue of The Key in its 'untampered with' form. I haven't and won't read it. And as a side note, Solving The Communion Enigma sucked.

So, I really would like to engage Ol' Balls in a discussion on this issue for I do find it troubling. As for Grokl, well, I did kind of burst onto the scene and ruffled some feathers in the process, and apparently his especially. I didn't mean to kill the ANTS voting thread, honest. I couldn't help myself in making that last comment. Peace


I figured you were joking, but either way, it works in comedic sense

I had similar introduction to Communion, but I guess I just moved away from Strieber type stuff to more data oriented books and documents as time went on, so I only read one or two of his other UFO books and can't comment on the full canon of his work. The movie Communion is always a fun, creepy one to watch.

You ruffled feathers, I wasn't aware of that. How awful, I hope everyone is OK.

Nothing wrong with a little rabble rousing to keep people on their flipping toes. I was told my posts were too long, but people write novels about pro wrestling in here, so it's a fragile ecosystem, very nuanced. So if a few threads gotta get killed along the way, so be it, it's called collateral damage 8)

_________________
"People don't want UFO information, they want to be entertained by UFO story tellers." Jan Aldrich

"Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine" Henry David Thoreau

"Never go with a hippie to a second location." Jack Donaghy

"Hey, I know that dude" Jeff Spicoli


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:53 am 
Offline
Low Initiate Freemason

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:57 am
Posts: 195
I don't see how the thread was killed.

Thread-killing would be me talking about how I gave myself a blumpkin the other night.

_________________
Balls on Fire


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:11 pm 
Offline
Hoagland-esque

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Pataskala, Oh
Yeah you're right Ol' Balls. It came back to life after several days. And Veil, when I said 'ruffled some feathers' it was meant as a bad pun. I'm sure everyone will be okay.

Ol' Balls, I am still reading the 'Minority Report'. I didn't want to get back until I was done, but, it is exhaustive and exhausting. As I do not have the 2nd edition, it's kind of out of context for me. I WILL finish reading it. So far it's insanely detailed, objective, and not the negative critique I expected. It is very well written and professional. If you did indeed write this, then you should be doing this for a living.

My issue with Strieber, with The Key and some other things he's been saying recently is that, needless to say, he's been stretching his credibility and he doesn't need to. Here's one of the things that he stated in the journal entry about the changes to the key which really raised red flags for me: 1st ed. MOTK 'There is no supernatural, only the natural world.' 2nd ed. MOTK 'There is no supernatural, only physics.' What? The 1st ed. statement flows, it's elegant, and it rings true. The 2nd statement is clumsy, doesn't make sense and does not sound like the words of a 'Master'. More troubling than that, the second statement reflects the evolution of the Strieber's thinking as it has evolved over the past seven years or so as expressed on Unknown Country, journal/diary entries etc., concerning quantum physics. They both talk about this shit all the time now.

I guess I'm saying that this change, amongst all, may be the most damning for it seems that this is an edit which clearly reflects their current attitudes, NOT those held and expressed well over a decade ago. Clearly the statement in question is one of my favorites in The Key. This seems to be a change clearly made later, not before. And who doesn't read their manuscript of a book before it's published? Wtf? I'm sorry, but it just sounds like a bold faced lie. What do you think Ol' Balls?

_________________
"I try every day to do as much good as I can, and as little harm as possible"
Unknown


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:46 pm 
Offline
Low Initiate Freemason

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:57 am
Posts: 195
It's something that I could go on at some length about. But since you've got the articles there I'll spare everyone the misery.

Strieber's never been clear about where the 'sinister' edits were done in the process. Leaving aside that ninety percent of the 'changes' are editorial (and most often for the better like you say) in one interview he insists they were done on a PageMaker file he used to format the original MSWord manuscript. In another interview he swears that they were done to the proof sheets *by hand* in the form of 'emendations and crossings-out'. The crazy thing is that he never seems to think to mention whether or not these ARE IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S HANDWRITING. You'd think, since that'd be the clincher, he'd mention it. Instead, he just sort of vaguely says it wasn't his wife and it wasn't him.

If somebody's looking for a wholly non-supernatural explanation, there's reason to think that the two different editions are just the result of two different editorial processes. The first time around, the text from the manuscript was imported from MSWord into PageMaker, adjusted and formatted, e-mailed to a printer. The printer sent back at least one set of proof sheets that were corrected and improved by hand.

Ten years later, the process starts all over again. But somehow (yet not surprisingly) despite being printed by a commercial publisher with a real editor, the editing is less diligent. It sticks with the original MSWord manuscript, only corrects a few typos, and has none of the further edits Strieber probably made all by himself when he was self-publishing it ten years before.

The 2001 edition in my view, in agreement with what you said, is definitely the better version. The 2011 version by contrast looks like a version you'd get before the final edits were done. It has clear mistakes. The real story here is how/why Strieber found it easier to scream bloody murder about censorship. On the one hand, his recollection of the conversation somehow 'changed'. Also there's the question of the profit motive: can't let it get out that the brand new mass market version is actually a shitty version that predates the final 2001 printed version somehow. Strieber himself has thrown a blanket of confusion on the whole thing, offering contradictory explanations for what happened, even in some places using the word 'manuscript' to apparently refer to the MSWord file one minute, the PageMaker file the next.

I remember when I brought all this to his attention in May 2011. He went and did a Dreamland interview on it right off the bat. I listened to it again the other day. What's funny about it is he completely misrepresents my view in that show, and though I hate to say it, basically lies. He says that I 'gloss over' details in the first essay to 'make [my] case'. In fact, Strieber was the one who omitted some of the changes I gave him when he did his Journal entry on them claiming they were 'sinister' acts of 'censorship'. Then he said in the interview that my position was that while the 2011 edition was essentially superior, the 2001 edition still had 'some value'. But I've always thought the 2011 edition was crap. From the first instant when I downloaded it on the Kindle and saw a massive paragraph formatting mistake on the first page -- the 2011 edition is shit up and down.

A lot of people avoid Strieber because his material sounds too idiosyncratic -- or because he himself sounds like a lunatic. But as hard as this might be to believe, the fiasco with "The Key" is the only thing I've ever found in his output that seriously calls his credibility into question. To this day, he's never successfully addressed it.

_________________
Balls on Fire


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:23 pm 
Offline
Hoagland-esque

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Pataskala, Oh
Ol' Balls,

In a lot of ways, I'm speechless. I'd bet the farm that poor ol' Whit was too. From a man who throughout his career is no doubt very experienced in the realm of literary critiques, especially with his subject matter, I don't think he was expecting any with 'The Key'. All this had to brought to his attention by an 'astute reader'. This insults everyone's intelligence, and insults you directly. He doesn't say,'Oh, and by the way this astute reader is a true professional as is his analysis. He's very specific and detailed in his report and, gee golly, since I didn't read any of my own work before or after I wrote it and published it, I am very much in his debt. My astute reader did for me what I should have done, but I was too busy meditating to do the work.' I could go into specifics better, like you did for us, if I had an edition of the 'new/old/new' Key. If I did, I would start using it's pages to roll up doobies.

I will say this. Although I personally feel that the old edition was NOT changed at that time of publication as he claims, and that the new one was deliberately changed not by some nefarious, sinister entity, but by Strieber himself, that the the 1st edition of 'The Key' stands alone as the genuine article. By this I mean, that despite everything that was done later, the 1st edition, alone, unmolested and unchanged stands as herald of very important messages that reached their intended audiences at that time. Strieber was an unwhitting(get it) conduit of some of the most important truth I've ever read. I don't say this because I'm not willing to admit that I was taken by a con man. The words. The words and their message painted many a picture. At least for me they did. I think he saw an audience for an out of print book growing over the course of a decade and figured.. well, we both know the rest. He is, in the end, an author who has to make a living. He's also an author who has incidentally enough, seen black eyed children with shirts made out of knives, a thunder bird perched on a chimney while with his son and many an encounter that 'he has never shared before.' No I am NOT a subscriber to UC.com. I am however, very disappointed and saddened. In the end, however, the truth is the only thing that matters. Thank you Ol' Balls. If I may be so bold to say, I look forward to future exchanges with you. I've got a lot up my sleeve. Oh, and please tell me that avatar isn't a picture of you.

_________________
"I try every day to do as much good as I can, and as little harm as possible"
Unknown


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:50 am 
Offline
Low Initiate Freemason

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:57 am
Posts: 195
Well, hot damn. Very kind of you to say there's any kind of quality in the work I posted, and I appreciate your kind remarks. Most of the time when you put something online you're just launching off into a void.

I'm with you on the first edition of "The Key". What you wrote mirrors my feelings on it. I, myself, think there's a value to that book that is probably beyond compare. It's just too good in too many ways -- and this is part of what leads you to think it's authentic. It's too smart even for Strieber. The politics of the so-called Master of the Key go well beyond Strieber's sort of 1950s Cold War-era knee-jerk patriotism. The way the ideas are expressed, too, goes well beyond what Strieber is generally capable of. Strieber's a vivid storyteller, but his writing has limitations and defects; in particular, the lurid exaggeration that is part and parcel of horror writing. By contrast, the language of the "Master of the Key" is epigrammatic and almost classical. Strieber also seems to misinterpret some of the ideas in it, minimizing or misunderstanding them in later interviews, making you think here is something independent of him.

All that being true, you'd probably shit (as I have done) if I drew your attention to all the evidence of important ideas that you would think were unique to "The Key" showing up in Strieber's work just prior to the supposed conversation. You may have seen near the end in one of the articles where it is mentioned how certain motifs already existed before. The phrase "Mars was murdered", for example, which Strieber puts in the mouth of the Master of the Key -- Strieber mentioned that in two different contexts. One, in which he discusses a Compuserve message board thread with that title. Two, when he claims it was in a letter published in "The Communion Letters".

That's just one example. Since then I've found probably a dozen points of overlap between "The Key" and a story he published in 1997 called "The Open Doors". Also, there's an extended passage where he considers the ideas of quantum indeteminacy and superposition in "The Secret School" -- ideas that were supposedly first brought to his attention in the conversation in the Toronto hotel room a year or two later.

Taken in total, all of the various issues with the composition and the foreshadowing produce a very pronounced feeling of 'WTF?'. Nevertheless, the ideas and the quality of the writing of the 1st edition are undeniable.

_________________
Balls on Fire


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:04 pm 
Offline
Hoagland-esque

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Pataskala, Oh
Ol' Balls,
I like to shit. It's very liberating. Seriously, though, please do enlighten me. What have you found prior to the release of 'The Key'? I've read all that which you mentioned, except Open Doors'. Lay it on me friend.:)

_________________
"I try every day to do as much good as I can, and as little harm as possible"
Unknown


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:13 pm 
Offline
Low Initiate Freemason

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:57 am
Posts: 195
I'll have an essay up on it at some point. But you have three major places where Strieber was doing stuff way too similar to "The Key" prior to that conversation taking place:

1. "The Open Doors". Full of themes and motifs in exact parallel, sometimes exact wording or near-exact wording.
2. "The Secret School". There's an extended passage in the second half of the book where he starts going into consciousness in quantum superposition -- an idea which only should have come to him later from the Key encounter. (That passage is later dropped from the audio reading on the website.)
3. Interviews from around that time. There's an interview online with Sean Casteel in which Strieber goes into some ideas with real specificity that he shouldn't have had yet.

Add to that the conflicting details about the encounter itself -- e.g. the MOTK being four-feet-tall here, 5'5" there; speaking in gutteral noises early on, then much later Strieber claiming he doesn't remember that (check out http://www.motkbook.com/questions-answers/ to see some of his comments to that effect). And then the whole censorship fiasco later.

What you have is a situation where even though the story's not a lie, it also just cannot be believed.

_________________
Balls on Fire


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group